[not_a_barfly]

Hi,

I want to make this as short as possible but still with enough relevant detail. Here goes.

I’ve been divorced for about a month, though separated for several months, and knew the marriage was ending about a year ago. A strange thing happened recently. I had been in the midst of setting up my new apartment, stalled on a few things but generally proud at how much I had accomplished in a short time. I honestly swore I was not going to be interested in dating for some time to come. Then a friend of mine invited me to his house for July 4th. While I was there, I met a woman who imperceptibly but insistently began drawing my attention. At the end of the night, some of us went to a bar, and she and I sat next to each other. Periodically through the night, she had been complaining that her “booty call” had fallen asleep or otherwise was not calling her. And at the bar she said she was dating someone but didn’t mention much beyond that.

We hit it off better than I expected, at least that is what I thought at the time, and at the end of the night we shared a cab home. In the cab, I worked up the nerve to ask her, “If you’re ever not dating, I’d like to hang out with you sometime.” It came out so naturally once I started that it surprised me. I have been with only one woman in my life (my wife) and had no dating experience at all. Yet I felt that if I didn’t ask there, I never would. It turns out that she is a bartender that a friend of mine frequents, which is how she got invited to his party.

Anyway, she said, “Well, it’s not exactly — I don’t know what it is, so I will give you my number. Call me with a missed call so I can get yours.” I was extremely pleasantly surprised. I kissed her quickly on the lips as she left the cab (I told her I’d pay for the whole fare) called her and waited for her to answer so I cold hear her voice again. I was ecstatic, but maybe that was part of the problem at the time, because later on the issue of moving too fast would come up, and in my mind that night I was already probably planting the seeds of moving too fast.

I called her the next night and left her a message saying I had a great time and heard that the weather would be good over the weekend, so I suggested we take a walk in the park. She has a dog, so she could bring it. She didn’t reply to my call, so a couple of days later I called back and left another message. About 5 minutes later she called back. I was so happy. She said sure we could go out, and we set a date and time. About an hour before the date, she left me a voice mail that she was also taking care of a friend’s dog, and so could we stay in her neighborhood so the dog could be close to home. I said sure.

So we met at the park on a sunny day. She was dressed simply but beautifully, and we walked through the park, talking, sitting a while, playing with the dogs, and walking back out. Then she walked me through her neighborhood and we wound up at a restaurant near her block. She suggested we sit down for a glass of wine, I said sure. We sat down and then she spoke with a friend on the phone (a friend she was going to meet later for dinner), but she said she was hungry and we would up having a delicious dinner in addition to the wine. She walked me back toward the subway and I gave her a soft kiss and we hugged. She hugged me with a tight squeeze.

OK, I thought, that could not have gone better.

The next day, I went walking for exercise, and at the end of my walk I got a text message from her asking me to join her at a place downtown. I called and got the location and went right away. When I got there, though, the first thing I saw was that she was dancing sexily with the waiter, grinding into him and staring at him and caressing him. She saw me and said hi, but didn’t stop dancing with the other men. It was the birthday party for one of her girlfriends and I knew nobody there, so it was a bit uncomfortable but not as much as her dancing was making me. And she kept saying that she had given away her underwear for a scavenger hunt. She is a great, sexy dancer, but it seemed like all the fun was for her, and I’m not sure why she wanted me to join her and see her that way. I danced with her a bit, but honestly that kind of dancing is not my style even though I wish I could do it. She was slapping guys on the butt, taking off their ties and putting them on, she even unbuttoned a guy’s shirt after taking off his tie, to show off his chest to some other people. During the tie bit I asked her archly, “Collecting ties?!” and she and the waiter kind of looked at me, and later she came to me and said “That’s the way I dance. It’s not like I’m taking them home.” At one point another friend of hers, a guy, came over to me and asked how she and I had met. I told him, and he said, “She absolutely adores you. But she’s a tough nut to crack.” I then pulled her aside and told her about how how my wife had not been my true passion and how that had led to jealousy problems. She yelled “Then why did you marry her?!” I said I was dutiful and we had a lot in common and I did want to start a family. I botched that, too, because it wasn’t that simple. I went through many years of love and closeness with my wife, but of course I wasn’t thinking straight because of the liquor.

After that we drank a bit more and headed to another bar. I took her hand and she let me hold it as we walked, but looking back on it I can see my rookie mistakes piling up. At the bar, she mentioned that a friend had invited her to her comedy show. I asked if I was invited to that (since she had invited me to the first party), and she said we’ll have to see how many people are going. But as the time drew closer, she said she was going alone, for girl time. As we walked out, she said she wanted to take things slow, and I said what is wrong? And she said well I did say I was seeing someone. I said what’s the matter, have you been hurt? She said yes, but I have also hurt other people. Not intentionally but I have. I just want to be honest. I’m not sure I feel that *unh* (i.e., sound of “that spark”) — she didn’t say it but she had to have meant *unh* for me. I texted her that I didn’t mean to get heavy on her and that if she wanted to take it slower to let me know, and she texted back that slow is good for her, and that she was busy for a couple of weeks but did like hanging out with me and that we should try to grab a movie or something sometime soon.

So a few days later, my friend invited me to the bar, and I showed up first. She saw me and was surprised but also a little happy, I think. She shook my hand but then leaned over the bar to kiss me. The dinner was fun, and I did my best to leave her alone to work. Near the end of the evening, though, I noticed the guy next to me was hitting on her, and I got competitive, so I stayed after my friends had left, and I told her some guys may want to get into your pants, but I want to get into your heart. She made a noise like a combination of a laugh and a scream and got upset that I was watching her with the customers. She was right. So I left.

I sent her some apology texts, and she wrote back saying only Thanks. We’ll talk soon.

Then, no contact for 3 days. On Sunday, I went to a bar with a friend to watch the US Women’s World Cup. I drank too much on an empty stomach, and didn’t want to go home alone, so I went back to the bar on my own. When she saw me, she said hi but was probably not happy to see me that way. Then the brother of my friend showed up and we talked for a bit, but as the alcohol from the other bar hit me, I got teary and started talking about her to the woman sitting next to me. After some of this, she came over and said in front of everyone, “Look, it’s not going to happen, you’re a nice guy but….” That crushed me. And my friend’s brother said I should go home, which I did. Embarrassingly, though, I drunk texted her asking her why she hated me.

I have sent her a couple of apology texts since then, and a kind of dramatic it’s-better-for-me-to-know-it’s-not-going-to-happen text, and she has not texted me back since.

My friends say forget it, move on. And clearly I know I have completely obliterated any romantic interest she may have had in me, which I still wonder about (but others here can weigh in based on the story above, especially why her friend would tell me she absolutely adored me). However, I see what I did as an unfortunate series of beginner’s mistakes with someone who could actually be a friend for me. I know that a lot of my moving too fast and getting too emotional were due to unacknowledged loneliness from my marriage and mourning for the marriage, as badly as it had ended. I also was stupid to drink so much. Most of the trouble happened after we had become intoxicated.

My question now is, is there any way I can ask her to be my friend anyway, if indeed it’s not going to happen in terms of romance? I know she has no reason to trust me about that, but as the days pass and I go over this in my head, I really do like her and want to apologize to her correctly and really go as slowly as she asked me to. She doesn’t know me and may think I am like this all the time, but she was really like the first date of my life and I am over 40. So I lost my mind for a couple of weeks, but I don’t want to never see her again.

Is there anything I can do at this point to persuade her to trust me again?

Thanks for any help.

— not_a_barfly

[April Masini, your AskApril]

These are not beginner’s mistakes or rookie mistakes as you’ve pegged them. They’re basic mistakes and I hope you’ll take my advice.

First of all, it sounds like you described part of your marriage’s demise on alcohol and then some of your behavior with this girl on alcohol, too. You go to a lot of bars, if one is judging from this post, so I think now that you’re newly divorced, it’s time to stop frequenting bars and drinking too much since you seem to be blaming some of your relationship problems on drink.

Second, since you’re new to dating after your divorce, and your comment that this felt like the first date of your life with this girl, I think it’s high time for you to read up on the basics (and not so basics): [url]https://www.askapril.com/relationship-dating-advice/date-out-of-your-league.html[/url]. Read Date Out of Your League! It will help you understand how to date and how to date to win!

Third, there is no future with this girl — she’s made it clear over and over again, but you keep ignoring her signals. Anyone who tells you she’s waiting for a “booty call” upon meeting you is giving you the clear message she’s into sex without meaning — and there’s nothing wrong with that, except that you’re looking for a relationship, feelings and emotional commitment. You ignored her sexy dancing and grinding on other guys in spite of the fact that she invited you to the party where she was taking off men’s ties. And your line about other guys wanting to get into her pants should have been reversed — it’s not them, it’s [i]her[/i] who’s looking to get into someone’s pants.

Your friends are right. Move on — and play the field so that you can get your feet wet and understand what you want this time around, and what REALLY went south in your marriage.

You’re starting a new chapter in your life, and that can be very wonderful, but it’s also a time to do things differently. Choose wisely, my friend! 😉

Let me know how it goes, read the book, and follow me @AskAprilcom on Twitter.

[not_a_barfly]

Thank you April, for your reply.

Well, I tried a few more times to contact her about being friends, and she finally got back to me with a message that was actually pretty helpful and compassionate overall, but she said I was heading into stalker behavior. I explained why the first date had affected me so much (the first date part you mentioned), told her I was sorry she was starting to feel stalked, thanked her for that date and for the few moments we shared, and said Bye. I think she was right about the stalker behavior; though it was just the first couple of days of trying to contact her, it was wrong for me to do so. I should have stopped contacting her after the bar incident.

It has been so hard on me. I don’t think the greater part of my marriage’s demise was due to alcohol. But I do think I get way too emotional and unstable when I drink too much, and spill too much personal information, and my marriage left me with years of deep loneliness that are now becoming apparent to me since I live on my own. I see now what you said about the sexual interest of the girl I dated. I should have realized that but I guess part of me didn’t want to see it. And when she said she wanted to go slow, I suppose that would have been a good time for me to stop worrying about her. It is hard when the woman is so alluring and doesn’t give you a straight No. And when you start imagining her in a future that will alleviate your loneliness.

Honestly, I am back to where I was as my divorced reached its final stages — a feeling like I’ll always be alone and will never understand women. I will read the links you mentioned, but for now it may actually be a time for me to cool it on trying to date, and just try to work on myself, and possibly volunteer or do stuff to help others. This failure at relationships is killing me.

I really wanted to do the right thing in my marriage, but I realized toward the end that if there is a certain something lacking in the chemistry, it is only a matter of time before things fall apart. What is worse about my first dating experience is that I felt high passion for the first time, just with an unavailable woman. That has left me crushed and, honestly, depressed. I am worried that I could fall so hard so fast and miss so many signals. I am not interested in my usual hobbies and activities. I can’t imagine myself being interested that way with another woman since I am still hurting from this one. And I’m beating myself up for putting myself in the position where she could sort of blame the whole bad ending on me.

I guess it will be better the next time around if I pay attention. I look forward to your response when you get a chance.

Thanks,

[April Masini, your AskApril]

Look, the pity party has to end. You’ve only been divorced a month and separated a few months. It’s way too soon for you to start saying that you’re a “failure at relationships”! 😯 You’re just not used to dating, because if you were, you would have recognized this woman wasn’t right for you, and stopped investing time in her, and moved on. That’s why you should buy Date Out of Your League, at this link: [url]https://www.askapril.com/relationship-dating-advice/think-and-date-like-a-man.html[/url] and read it today!

Rejection is part of dating. It’s a gift because it guides you away from someone who isn’t interested so you can invest your time in someone who is! If you think the first, second, third or even fourth woman you date is going to be Ms. Right, then you need to make some new friends who are out there in the dating world. There are so many single women that it’s important to be honest with yourself about what you want and then be honest with yourself about what’s in front of you. What you felt with this woman you wrote about was not passion. It was lust. With a little more experience you’ll learn to recognize the difference.

You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and read Date Out of Your League, and get back out there. Your next life chapter is going to be as successful as your attitude and the amount of smart work you put into it!

[not_a_barfly]

OK, thank you, April, for your candid response.

I still do think it may be too early for me to date, at least in the sense of integrating a woman into my life again. It is surprising to see you describe what I felt as lust, since I am convinced it is something more. What’s interesting is that if this is the case, it wasn’t just physical lust but also a kind of social lust, if you will, because I kind of marveled at the way she lives, her lack of inhibition coupled with a sweet demeanor, and maybe I wanted to be able to taste that life for myself, and she decided she won’t let me (at least with her).

By the way, I looked up a few pages on stalker behavior, and although what I did was a little obsessive for so early a point in knowing someone (we went on two dates and saw each other two other times), what I did was not really anywhere near stalking if you look at what actual stalkers do. It’s possible she was partly joking, but I don’t even want the appearance of stalking associated with me.

I understand that in any case it is best not to contact her anymore, certainly not in person and not for a good long time, mostly because if she feels like it is stalking behavior then I’d better respect that and back off. However, that last message in which she mentioned stalking is otherwise fairly sympathetic, explaining that she doesn’t hate me or anything just that she agrees with me that I am not ready to date this way, and that it is actually good for both of us, for that reason, not to be in touch. She also said possible friendship is something we can figure out in the future (if possible), not now.

I guess I find it a little frustrating because (and maybe this is just my obsessiveness speaking), I thought going into this that dating her could bring out a better side of me and of her. I thought she deserved more than booty calls, and I naively interpreted some of her behavior as somehow reciprocating my feelings. But I guess I’m being either too prudish or just not accepting that maybe she is OK with booty calls, and I’m the one who isn’t. I also beat myself up because I let it spill over into the rest of my self-esteem, and I get envious of other men who somehow do get her attention on a more permanent basis and who don’t do this much hand-wringing over winning the affection of a woman. Because I’m a little over 40, and she is in her mid-30s, I also am concerned that I am aging out of being appealing to women of her age, or maybe have been such a homebody that I sound immature in a dating situation while being chronologically older, and that must seem weird.

On the other hand, you probably would say she is in a kind of fast lane of dating and just isn’t for me, and I want her anyway, thus the friction over that is causing me pain, and I need to get past that to look for other women.

So I think I will read your book, but I’m going to need to work on other stuff in my life to make myself more interesting to the right women, and possibly even to this one if we ever see each other again and I can be more in control and less in her thrall, and I also need to find a way to lighten up on dating and not let rejection crush me. I do have a child and do not want to siphon energy away from that duty while experimenting with dating women who are far more experienced at this and don’t imbue dating with the extra meaning that I do. Because even though I am in a pity party right now, there is genuine pain that I’m feeling as well, and I would have liked not to go through this pain again so soon right after the pain of my divorce.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I’ll let you know what I think of the book, and how it goes if I can apply any of it in the near future.

All the best

[April Masini, your AskApril]

I really hope you’ll buy and read Date Out of Your League: [url]https://www.askapril.com/relationship-dating-advice/date-out-of-your-league.html[/url]. It’s an automatic download onto your computer so you can start reading tonight! The book is going to help you with EVERYTHING you’ve written me about here.

Read it, use and then come back to me and let me know how the book is helping your dating life. 😀

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